I heard a story yesterday on WayFM about Lauren Daigle appearing on Ellen. The segment was good – Lauren was great as a performer, Wally, the host, did a great job interviewing her, and the conversation was meaningful and insightful. The part that surprised me was the reaction the segment got.
If your life is too hectic to read or listen to it, long story short: Lauren Daigle (a Christian music artist) performed on the Ellen Show, and the Wally Show (a Christian Radio morning show) invited Lauren on to talk about her experience with Ellen. And invited listeners to watch the segment online. Lots of listeners got really angry about some things that Wally deeply disagreed with, so he wrote about it.
Got it? Let’s move on…
Before we get started it’s important to know a few things:
- I’m a Christian, too. Baptized when I was 8. Worship leader for many years. This post is not meant to attack the Church. I am the Church. Anything I say about Christians, applies to me, too.
- The conversations and statements below are not happening in Christian spaces only. The world is watching and hearing these statements, making their own judgments about we are and how we love.
- All of this applies to me, too. I know I already wrote that, but I want to be sure it’s emphasized. I heard echoes of my own heart in all of the statements Wally’s listeners made – my struggles are just with a different group of people.
Now that we have that straight, three things our reactions to the Wally Show teach us about ourselves:
1. We often think we’re the moral police instead of being subversive cheerleaders.
The Evangelical culture has long been involved in trying to create a nation full of moral behavior through legislation, force, and coercion. We have focused so much of our energies on transforming behavior without trying to transform hearts through sacrificial love and generosity. We have become a culture full of Pharisees, condemning anyone that does not meet the standards of behavior we’ve created on our own.
We have it backwards. When we look to Jesus we see an entirely different method of transforming the world. Jesus loved without strings. Yes, he told people to repent and sin no more, but that was after he had already invested himself in their well-being. He demonstrated his love for them by eating with them, healing them, and living amongst them. Then, after they knew he saw them, understood them, and loved them, he would tell them to repent. He didn’t tell them to repent out of anger or disappointment or fear, he told them because he loved them.
Too often, we Christians tell people to repent because they are making us uncomfortable or because they are making us angry or because of some other insidiously selfish reason. As Lauren said, “It’s not up to me to choose who I’m supposed to love.” First we love, then we love some more and let Jesus do his work.
2. We like to point out the sins of others, especially when we do not struggle with them.
In the Aftercast about this, Zach mentioned how Wally often brings up Ryan Seacrest, who lives with his girlfriend, yet they haven’t had any phone calls from angry listeners about him. It could be that most WayFM listeners believe Seacrest is a morally upstanding man, but I would guess it’s more likely that we find Seacrest’s sin less icky.
The Church is full of sexual and marital sin. Our rates of pornography addiction, divorce, and cohabitation are nearly as high as it is for people who do not attend church. I have not heard many speeches, protests, or angry phone calls about how Christian radio is promoting those same issues when they talk about Seacrest, Oprah, or Donald Trump.
Perhaps the world would find us more respectable and trust us more if we concerned ourselves with our own sins and shortcomings rather than focusing on one or two sins that most of us do not struggle with. I imagine this is why Jesus told us to focus on the plank in our own eye, rather than the speck of dust in our neighbor’s.
3. We think we’re being attacked by the world, but really we’re the ones invading it.
One of the most common statements I hear in regards to homosexuality is that “they are pushing their agenda on us.” The truth of this statement does not really matter. Maybe there is some secret, organized strategy from the LGBTQ+ community to transform our society. Maybe there’s not. It does not really matter because the entire premise is based on a misunderstanding of our call to be in the world.
In John 17, Jesus mentioned that we are not from this world, but that he is sending us into it. We have shortened his prayer to the saying that we are “in the world, but not of it.” Somehow, we have transformed Jesus’s belief that we would be a people that transforms the world through love, into a command that we are stuck in this world but we should quarantine ourselves from it so we can remain pure. We have changed it to mean the exact opposite thing.
The world is not trying to overtake us or overthrow us. They are already the dominate force around us. We are the ones trying to transform their world. We are the invading force, fighting for their liberation from sin and death. If we fear the ones we are meant to love and redeem, then we cannot accomplish our true mission of finalizing the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
[bctt tweet=”Christians are an invading force, trying to liberate the world from sin and death” username=”@john0sburn”]
Bonus Lesson Learned:
There are a lot, possibly even a majority, of Christians that already know this. Just read through the comments on the post from the Wally Show. It’s full of people applauding Wally’s response, disagreeing with the callers, and showing their support for an inclusive love, without overlooking the ways in which we all need to grow.
It’s important to remember that we are all prone to hate, fear, or disregard the people we vehemently disagree with. I struggle everyday with having patience and love for my “Christian” neighbor that speaks from a place of fear and hatred. As soon as I give into that hate, however, I become the very thing I am fighting against.
So, while it’s easy to point fingers at judgmental people, we must remember that our God calls us to love our enemy and to seek their redemption, not their destruction. Those same three lessons above apply to me as much as to anyone else, I just aim my judgement at different groups.
God loves the people I hate, and I pray that we can grow in love together for everyone.
Hi John. Greetings from northeast Scotland.
You have made a very clear statement which I am in agreement with. When I read about the reaction to Lauren’s appearence on Ellen’s show I was not that surprised. Yes, we know that certain lifestyles etc are not God’s best for us but the thought that I had was, ‘Who is our neighbour? Everybody else but me.’
Yours in Christ.
Dave.
Hi Dave-
Thanks for reading, especially from Scotland!
I love the question and answer: “Who is my neighbor? Everyone else but me.” I have so much to learn and many areas to become more disciplined so I can more faithfully love all of my neighbors.
Thanks again for the encouragement!
Deo volente-
John
I’ve given this a lot of thought. When her most popular song came on the Christian radio I thought wow what a voice and the words spoke to me as I have granddaughters who have low self images. Then I realized she never said God or Jesus until the end. I shrugged my shoulders and said oh what a shame but it didn’t go any further. Then I saw her on Ellen and wondered what she would sing. Let’s face it Christians we can love them all like Jesus and love them into the kingdom. They have the culture now and no amount of laws written on paper will change that but we all know the hole in their soul cannot be filled with anything they have to offer, the Lord gives me hope for the future but the job is mine to share him whenever I can. Discussions and postulating on the internet with not work.
Always love your insights John! May your tribe increase!
Jesus said to go into all the World and preach the Gospel…. Not stay in your comfort zones of the Church and it”s 4 walls and events.
Thank you John for your words. I am a Christian and I love all people. My daughter is part of the LGBTQ community. I love her and I’m in no way ashamed of her, nor do I pass judgement on her. That’s not my job, only God’s. My job as her mom is to love her and to always be here for her and most importantly to pray for her. I am no one to pass judgement on anyone. Neither are you ( as you said ), or the Christian’s in the church not taking responsibility for their sins bc their sins aren’t as severe as others. However, I recall God saying ” I am the Lord your God; judge not lest ye be judged; he who is without sin cast the first stone. ” No one walking this Earth is without sin and I live my life knowing that it isn’t my place to judge any way another individual lives their life! God bless you and your ministry!
Hi,
First thing I would state is; I highly enjoy her songs. She has a great voice and her albums are normally littered with references to Christ. That being said; the song she sang had no mention of Christ, Jesus, God, or any other derivative thereof. In fact, the albums is quite light on the Christ and much more vague.
You don’t really mean we shouldn’t legislate and JUDGE and can prove it with a couple of questions:
Judgement – Are you saying that we should not discern or “JUDGE” the actions of anyone? Is it really only other Christians you ‘judge or discern’? I don’t think that’s true. We are told to actually discern which is to judge ALL things. Not just Christian, but even your pastor who is teaching you on Sunday’s!
Does Christianity have issues? Yup….. however, the church of the younger crowd doesn’t want to hear the message that we’re to OBEY Christ as He stated numerous times. Especially in the Book of John!
If you want to assert Ms. Daigle’s appearance on Ellen and singing a non-Christ mentioned song might garner those in the audience to reach out for her music and hear of Christ, that’s all well and good. However, that doesn’t abrogate Christians following what Christ stated. Loving your neighbor does not mean you enable in any way.
When the woman in the bible was caught in the act of adultery, Jesus did not condemn her. The same spirit(perverted spirit} is on a homosexual. Satan does not care who we have sex with,a child, an animal,anyone who is not our husband or wife, same sex or opposite sex it is a perverted spirit. And he laughs because we Christians are condemning the ones who are not just sinning like we do with the opposite sex. May God forgive us all!!!
Not the author, but several key points worth emphasizing.
Am I personally comfortable with the things that the world is produces? Am I in agreement with what the world thinks is correct?
No, but as the original poster pointed out, we’re invaders in this world.
That said, the attitude of any relationship or reaction we have with the world, must first be rooted in love. Ms Daigle put it quite succinctly when she said something along the lines of “when we start to put lines around those we can love, we loose the real meaning of the Gospel”
Who did Jesus socialize with? The sinners and the social rejects. He loved them, he saw their need, and then, and only then, after changing their entire life, did he preach to them.
Then, on Jesus’s last night, he gave us a single command: that we love one another, just as he loved us. For further reading, I suggest looking at the greatest commandments, turning the other cheek, and not judging.
On that, since you emphasized judging so fervently, I’ll point out that to my recollection, Jesus, when he was teaching, saved any actual judgement for the church. He’d tell those who were sinning to sin no more, but he would verbally tear strips off those who thought they were living for God, but were instead putting walls between God and the people. And yes, Jesus did tell us to be wary and use our best judgement, but that was in looking at fellow members and teachers within the church itself. “By their fruit…”
Well said, Stephen.
Loving people who choose a destructive lifestyle is what we are called to do. Being content to call their choice good and acceptable in the name of non judgment is wrong and not love at all. The friends I’ve had caught in the gay life, I have done my best to love. But I’ve seen the unhappiness that is inherent there and I want better for them.
As difficult as it may seem, I believe that in loving we are NOT condoning but loving in spite of the sin. We are called NOT to approve but to love. That can be hard at times. After all we all sin in one way or another, but Christ loves us in spite of our weaknesses.
I am reminded of this daily as I spend time in prayer and praise with our Lord. I see my past sins and current failures in the light of HIS love and have seen and experienced His mercies that are NEW every morning. I find myself easily drawn into the the attitude of judgement and condemnation of those that I see as knowing to do better but don’t…THE CHURCH AND THE SINNERS…and then I also see that I might also be condemned for my weaknesses and failures on a daily basis. “There is none that does good, no not one.” But God reminds me that we all slip and He still loves us in spite of this. Then I am humbled into forgiveness, realizing that but for the Grace of God, there I would be.
I am eternally grateful that God forgave me when I was not living for Him…and yet He loved me into the kingdom of God in spite of my sins of the flesh.
We can only pray for those who have not seen the light or felt the warmth of His love. I pray that I can honor Him on a daily basis and that I give no place for the world to judge God because of my actions. I have much to be grateful for and mostly for mercy and Grace. Thank you Jesus for loving me in my imperfection.
Lauren did not get to pick her song. Ellen listened to the album and picked Still Rolling Stones for her to perform.
Spot on!! I tire of Christians saying, “Who am I to judge. Judge yet not lest ye be judged.” They are correct in saying God ultimately judges. But Horatio, you hit the nail on the head when you said we are to discern. We are not to enable. We can “love the sinner and not the sin.” We are not judging when we chose not to condone behavior that is clearly spelled out in scripture as sin. And yes, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, we are to seek His forgiveness with a truly REPENTENT heart and “go and sin no more.”
Excellent I love this message! And that goes for how we treat people crossing the border of the US seeking asylum. Love on people wherever they are! Show the mercy and kindness that we have been shown by our savior! What Would Jesus Do? What has he told us to do?
No, we are not to condemn or spew hatred or harm anyone by casting stones – physical or verbal… but we are to share the truth of the gospel and the truth is that Jesus died because of the sinful nature of man. If we are not to discern between right and wrong then there was no point to His death and John the Baptist would not have been calling all God’s children to repentance or been beheaded and suffered a martyr’s death …and the Apostle’s could have simply continued in their sin and everyone that Jesus healed would have been sent along their merry way with no rules attached and we could all live happily ever after for eternity, but that is not the truth of His message. Parents have rules and so does our Heavenly Father …and these are shared throughout biblical history and contained in the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus simplified all that had been given to the Jewish people via Moses and the Mosaic Law in two easy to recall commandments… we are to Love God above all else (for He loves you and wants what is best for you) and love your neighbor as yourself …so, it is a given that you are to love yourself (especially when you come to the understanding of how precious you are to your Heavenly Father) and not treat others (even those who are in sin) hatefully. The truth is Jesus did not throw out the teachings recorded in the Old Testament, in fact, He tells us that He is the ultimate fulfillment of all that is righteous shared by God’s prophets throughout man’s history and, incidentally, in Matthew 7 where He tells us “do not judge” happens to be the same chapter where He warns His followers to “enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction.” -Matthew 7:13
I am saddened that Lauren and Wally are misrepresenting God’s truth and expressing anger and resentment toward those who disagree with their interpretation of the Scriptures. Your video graphics included in this post also seem to project a bias against those who disagree with your viewpoint… painting us as violently outraged! Honestly, this is not the first time that followers of Christ have disagreed, but aligning those who hold a different opinion with the Pharisees is as juvenile as name calling and indicative of one’s own failure to read God’s Holy Word… I humbly suggest you begin with Jude – the final Epistle in the New Testament where Sodom and Gomorrah is revisited… and Malachi (the final book in the Old Testament) that can also give you some good insight into God’s warnings to His people before going silent for four hundred years. And, I was reminded by my 8 year old daughter that it is important to learn how this all started in order to understand the rest… so an in depth reading of Genesis would certainly help to reestablish what went wrong in the first place.
Finally, the full context of Jesus teachings are important and, I can assure you, ALL inclusive, and, as He is our Heavenly Father’s chosen Temple under the new covenant, it is a dangerous path we tread when we choose to manipulate and distort His truth… for there is one who seeks to devour us both in the argument. I thank you for your time and your thoughtful consideration.
Respectfully,
CJ Head
God over threw me… the puppy queen.
Hi CJ-
Thanks for reading and for your thoughtful response. First, I’d like to apologize for seeming insensitive. I understand how those gifs could be perceived as making fun of the people that disagreed with Wally and Lauren. That was not my intention, however. I was thinking of myself, and all Christians, when I put those up.
The whole point of my article is that we are all guilty of judging others in unfair and un-Christlike ways. I find arrogance, judgement, and haughtiness in my heart nearly every day. I proclaim the love of Christ, then often turn around and thank God I’m not as [fill in the blank] as some other person, much like the pharisee in Luke 18.
I 100% person agree with you that Jesus demands our entire life and obedience. He is a demanding God, telling us to deny ourselves, deny our families, and to walk towards certain death in obeying him. He leaves no room for excuses. But he is quick to forgive, and eager to restore our relationship with him.
I also believe he set a very difficult example for us to follow. He lived a life full of struggle, hunger, and oppression. He was hated by his own people, persecuted by his government, and betrayed by his friends. Each of those actions was in response to the ways he loved the sinners and outcasts of his day. The Jews despised him because he forgave sins, healed on the Sabbath, and subverted their economy. His government murdered him because he refused to submit to their cruel and unjust laws, declaring his kingdom superseded theirs. His friends betrayed him because they thought he was coming to conquer through violence and domination, like every other kingdom in history. They were preparing for war and glory, but he offered them death and humiliation.
It is the ways Jesus demonstrated and taught us to love those outside of the kingdom that convinces me we should seek to love and serve everyone, particularly those that we think are the dirtiest. He surrounded himself by “sinners” while rejecting the religiously pure and pious. I find no evidence in the Bible that we should live differently.
You asked me to read Jude and Malachi, so I did.
Jude references to Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing to do with homosexuality at all. You did not say that’s what you meant, but I am making that leap from the context of the article. The two main points Jude made about Sodom and Gomorrah are they practiced “gross immorality” and went after “strange flesh.”
First, the “gross immorality” essentially means to “go a whoring.” The Greek verb there is where we get our word for pornography: ekporneuō. The American Church is as addicted, if not more, to pornography as the world around us. This is an indictment on us, not on people like Ellen.
Second, the strange flesh or perversion is having to do with lusting after “heteros” flesh. The meaning is not entirely clear, though in context of verse 6 referring to angels leaving their domain, I suggest it is speaking of humans lusting after angels and vice versa (Gen. 6). This also makes sense in light of the story of Lot within Sodom.
Malachi is also an indictment against the religious, not against those outside of the covenant. It is written to people claiming to be serving God, but ignoring his precepts and sacrificing unfit animals, getting divorced, and being greedy. Again, something that sounds a lot like us within the the Church.
In the end, I believe we should error on the side of love, being patient, kind, slow to anger, and keeping nor records of wrongs, rather than on condemning those we believe are sinning. Our condemnation does not inspire change, only Jesus can replace a heart of stone with a heart of flesh. Only Jesus can cause our dead bodies to reanimate and redeem us from the slavery of death. The law cannot inspire obedience or change (Romans 7, Hebrews 8), which is why Jesus came to fulfill the law and give us hearts that obey and are sanctified through his work, not the Law’s.
Thanks for the conversation!
In Him-
John
I appreciate you taking the time to read the scriptural text I recommended… I agree with much of what you state especially re: Jesus came to fulfill God’s law and allow God’s truth to be written upon our hearts for His good purpose, but my disagreement with you, Wally, and Lauren, is that you all have distorted God’s truth to fit your own “judgement seat” of what you think is right and wrong… and those who disagree must have a heart of stone.
I think we can also agree that even Jesus submitted to God’s will and His truth… through His ultimate life-giving sacrifice. But the truth is that parsing Biblical verbiage can be used to justify many different faith-based viewpoints and that is why we are asked to allow Him to guide us to His truth. To reduce the significance of what we are taught about Sodom & Gomorrah regarding carnal lusts and sin-filled desires only to adopt a narrow premise that man should not have fleshly relations with angels, sadly, would discard much of God’s teachings in the Bible and leave very little to learn in the content of our Heavenly Father’s Holy Word. So, we must go back to the beginning to the rebellion of Adam and Eve to understand that the defilement comes from within by choosing your wisdom over the wisdom of God.
God’s ultimate truth is apparent when we look at His creation… He created them man and woman and “therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” -Genesis 2:24 The purpose of our flesh relationship is ultimately for procreation and anything else is a distortion or perversion of His truth and intended purpose for His creation. It’s God’s creation… not mine or yours and no matter what man concocts or does through the manipulation of science to puff himself up to make man seem more relevant, the fact still remains… it takes one man and one woman to fulfill His intended plan for this world. God’s truth will never change.
Incidentally, I think the greatest teaching by Christ was that true love is not of the flesh at all… true love is found in God’s Holy Spirit and His love for His children. He created us for His good purpose and we miss the point if we continue to focus on the lusts of the flesh which is when sin entered into this world. …I have no ill will, wish no harm, and cast no judgement on the life that someone else chooses, but I, as a follower of Christ and believer in God’s truth, will not bend His facts to fit my lifestyle simply out of convenience to be liked by the masses. …Take care!
Through Christ,
CJ
I hope people have come back to read your post CJ. You, I believe, have this correct. Show love above all else, but do not deviate from what the Word teaches.
Cool
Cool info. We need more
Really awesomeness of information and hope to see more real soon